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Subject Topic: Kings Valley 2 with MoG engine??? Post ReplyPost New Topic
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AcesHigh
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Posted: 09 July 2009 at 20:41 | IP Logged Quote AcesHigh

I wonder how difficult it would be to remake Kings Valley 2, argably one of the best MSX games ever, with the Maze of Galious engine.

Aside the graphics and music, the enemy AI is very simple and easy to reproduce, as well as the mechanics of the game.

Also, I can only guess that, since it includes an editor, it must not be so difficult to reproduce the 60 levels, many of which are only one screen.
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AcesHigh
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Posted: 09 July 2009 at 20:57 | IP Logged Quote AcesHigh

the case for remaking Kings Valley 2:

- the game was AWESOME
- the game music was AWESOME
- the game graphics were AWESOME

aside its awesomeness:

- enemy AI is pretty simple: In the editor, when you are creating a level and place an enemy, you already know PRETTY WELL how each enemy will behave, what direction they will go, etc
- repetitive graphics: aside the backgrounds, there are few enemies, and graphics... it shouldnt be very difficult to make
- simple levels: you know exactly how each thing in a level will work. You just place them in the level and it will work always the same way.
- editor that ships with the game should make it easy to reproduce all the 60 levels of the game.
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AcesHigh
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Posted: 09 July 2009 at 21:11 | IP Logged Quote AcesHigh

how simpler can be the map editing???

this is a two screens vertical map joined in one image...
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Jorito
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Posted: 21 July 2009 at 21:05 | IP Logged Quote Jorito

I fully agree about the choice for King's Valley 2, it's a great game. You could probably come a very long way with the MoG2 editor, I think.

The big problem will be the content I guess. David (our gfx hero) is busy with his studies till september, and my time (for the music) has been very limited as well. Not to mention Santi, who has been occupied otherwise as well.

Quite a pity, I'd love to remake another great MSX game, but it will definitely be more fun with a dedicated team that has time to create something cool! And we still have to finish our Knightmare remake...
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AcesHigh
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Posted: 24 July 2009 at 21:57 | IP Logged Quote AcesHigh

I think Knightmare is much more complex and thus difficult to make than Kings Valley 2. Many more enemies with different behaviors, bosses, complex SHMUP mechanics, etc.

In KV2, enemies exhibit very simple behavior... and there are only 4 different enemies! You can edit your level and at once you already know how the enemy is supposed to act.

"Weapons" too are very few... boomerang, dagger (knife? sword?), shovel, hammer, pickaxe and driller.

My sister is a wonderful anime/manga drawer and already had animation courses. I guess she could draw all player/enemies sprites, and paint them, very well.

Maybe if I created the graphics the rest of you guys would be willing to put forward the project? :)
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Jorito
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Posted: 25 July 2009 at 10:41 | IP Logged Quote Jorito

Well, if you can find people willing to deal with the code and the maps, and can convince me the project will be fully completed, I would be willing to create the music!
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AcesHigh
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Posted: 29 July 2009 at 07:37 | IP Logged Quote AcesHigh

as long as an editor is released, I will deal with the maps :)
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Jorito
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Posted: 09 August 2009 at 23:53 | IP Logged Quote Jorito

If KV2 is a remake candidate, then I'd rather do Usas. Especially since there's a few good KV2 remakes available already. And it should be doable with the MoG2 editor. Usas is a game that deserves to be remaked, and is even more interesting to me than KV2. ABut I think this came up earlier already .
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Jorito
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Posted: 09 August 2009 at 23:54 | IP Logged Quote Jorito

Hey Popolon, is the MoG2 build in SVN the latest version and workable?
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Iamweasel
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Posted: 10 August 2009 at 04:05 | IP Logged Quote Iamweasel

Jorito wrote:
If KV2 is a remake candidate, then I'd rather do Usas. Especially since there's a few good KV2 remakes available already. And it should be doable with the MoG2 editor. Usas is a game that deserves to be remaked, and is even more interesting to me than KV2. ABut I think this came up earlier already .


USAS is a nice game indeed, but before talking about new remakes, I believe we should finish the one we already started (KnightMare).

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Popolon
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Posted: 10 August 2009 at 14:36 | IP Logged Quote Popolon

Hmmm. Good point. I think it should be working. I will check it out. Definitively it can be improved by making use of HW acceleration using OpenGL (as in the latest games we did). But it should work.

At some point there were even some tutorials on how to use the editor. Are they still in the SVN? (not in my computer right now, so no access to the SVN)
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Popolon
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Posted: 10 August 2009 at 15:02 | IP Logged Quote Popolon

And btw, I think the KV 2 is TOTALLY doable with the current status of the MOG2 editor! So, I think it's actually an AWESOME idea! :)

On top of that, someone nagging me about bugs and feature requests is definitively something that will push me doing some more coding :)
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Jorito
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Posted: 10 August 2009 at 18:35 | IP Logged Quote Jorito

By the looks of it, the tutorials are not in SVN yet. It'd be a good idea to have them there, though. Could you add them when you are using your own computer again?

I also noticed there's no OSX (or Linux) buildable version of the editor yet. I hope it's similar to the other remakes so building should be easy? Does it take endianness into account yet?

Popolon wrote:
And btw, I think the KV 2 is TOTALLY doable with the current status of the MOG2 editor! So, I think it's actually an AWESOME idea!


What about Usas? Do you think that would also be possible with the MoG2 editor? It's a platformer again, so it should work. The only problem I foresee would be the boss fights, the different player emotions and the small cutscenes between levels.

I'll leave further comments until I've seen the tutorials .
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Popolon
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Posted: 11 August 2009 at 20:14 | IP Logged Quote Popolon

Ok I found them. The tutorials are actually online .

You can find them here: http://www.braingames.getput.com/mog2/editor-guide.html

The turorials and guide refer to version 0.5 of the editor. And the version in the SVN is 0.93, which was almost complete as I remember it. I just checked it out again to see the source code. I'll try to recompile it again to see if it still works .

About USAS I don't see too much trouble either. Actually, the way I approached the MoG2 editor originally was that with the editor you would create the whole game (including main menus etc). Which I now think it's an awful idea. So, we are better off just creating the game, and leaving those cutscenes, etc. to be coded manually. About the player emotions, I don't think they will be an issue.
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Jorito
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Posted: 11 August 2009 at 21:29 | IP Logged Quote Jorito

I've downloaded the guide, and placed it in SVN (in mog2/trunk/guide). While I was at it, I also fixed the HTML a bit, now it's in the style of the MoG site and a bit more semantically correct. For those without SVN access, it's here: http://www.jorito.net/guide/

Popolon, it might be wise to check the current guide in SVN and see if it's still up-to-date with the current situation. I can imagine there's quite some differences between v0.5 and v0.93

Also, it might be nice to create an updated download of the MoG2 editor, so AcesHigh (or somebody else) can try to create some King's Valley 2 (or Usas) levels with it!
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Jorito
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Posted: 11 August 2009 at 21:31 | IP Logged Quote Jorito

Popolon wrote:
Actually, the way I approached the MoG2 editor originally was that with the editor you would create the whole game (including main menus etc). Which I now think it's an awful idea.

This is intriguing; why did you choose the editor approach at first? And what made you reconsider this approach?
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Popolon
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Posted: 11 August 2009 at 22:07 | IP Logged Quote Popolon

I'll try to recompile tomorrow or so. I tried today but I found out that my installation of visual studio is broken! So I need to reinstall that...

About the editor approaches. Initially I wanted the editor to be something like a "Games Maker" or something like that, and wanted it to be complete. But then after I started that I realized that editing things such as the menus of the game, etc. is much simpler done directly coding it So, I think that the editor should only be used for creating the game play...
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Popolon
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Posted: 11 August 2009 at 23:13 | IP Logged Quote Popolon

btw, since I have to reinstall Visual studio anyway to compile the editor. I've seen some of you guys use DEVCPP, is it worth it? never used it, so I'm kind of scared
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Jorito
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Posted: 12 August 2009 at 01:04 | IP Logged Quote Jorito

The reason I picked DevCpp to create the Windows binaries for the remakes was that a) I didn't understand MSVC, b) DevCpp was free and c) DevCpp has mostly Unix-like toolchain (in contrast with MSVC which is a world on its own).

Mostly the Unix-like approach was very convenient; I didn't feel like investigating a lot of time in MSVC for an OS I don't use, and DevCpp was easy to use. It's a very simple IDE, but for a quick compilation it works fine for me.

Just download the latest beta from http://www.bloodshed.net/devcpp.html, extract it within its own directory and give it a try. If you don't like it, just remove the directory; no need to uninstall.
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Jorito
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Posted: 12 August 2009 at 01:05 | IP Logged Quote Jorito

Oh, and post back here if you managed to get it working. Then I'll try to see if it builds on OSX as well!
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